Featured Guest:

Tony McGee, Senior Director, FI & Fintech Sales at Onbe

Tony is a seasoned professional with over 15 years in payments. At Onbe he works closely with account-facing teams and strategic delivery partners to understand what clients need and want, driving roadmap decisions and ensuring Onbe’s capabilities are consistently at the forefront of the industry. Tony values the importance of learning from both successes and mistakes and helping his team grow their unique skill sets.

Episode Transcript

0:02 Welcome to Social Currency, powered by Sunrise Banks, a podcast about the most innovative change makers in finance, technology, and social impact, and how they, our guests, are dismantling barriers, reshaping their industries, and perhaps even ours too.

0:16 I’m your host, Tyler Seydel.

0:19 And I’m Eric Shurr.

0:20 Here we speak to those driving positive change through social entrepreneurship, from cutting edge technology to creative grassroots efforts.

0:29 Each episode seeks to reveal the stories behind the revolution that is propelling us toward a world of financial inclusivity.

0:37 I’m Tyler Seydel, and I’m Eric Schurr, and today we’re going to talk about payment processes and secure recipient experiences.

0:46 Joining us to talk about his role in this area is Tony McGee.

0:49 Tony is the senior director of financial institution and FinTech Services, or what they call FinServe over at OnBe, which offers a digital payment solutions.

1:00 He has more than 15 years’ experience in payments in national products and works very closely with teams across the country.

1:07 And nationally, to deliver the best results for his clients.

1:11 He’s a thought leader, a football coach, a rugby dad, and frankly, just a good time, Mr.

1:16 Tony McGee.

1:17 Tony, thanks for joining us today.

1:19, thanks for having me.

1:21 Tony, OnBe is a client-focused organization.

1:24 Can you tell me how your client’s thinking around the payment experience for their customers has changed over the past few years, especially since COVID?

1:34 Yeah, good question.

1:36 once again, thanks for having me.

1:37 I really enjoy the partnership with Sunrise and just enjoy working with you guys.

1:41 So I appreciate the, the invite.

1:45 That’s a, it’s a good question.

1:47 Since if we look at the last 3 or 4 years, I think the, the customer, the, you know, the the consumer expectations are, are rapidly moving toward, a digital experience, right?

2:00 I think, you know, the, the, the COVID world and the, the ideas around, you know, how do we get more, connected via digital solutions, working from our computers, from our phones, that certainly initiated some more thought processes on how we can do things in a disconnected world.

2:22 you know, paper-based solutions, things like that.

2:24 People weren’t going into offices, people weren’t, you know, able to just hand things to each other and all of a sudden you you started to see businesses start to think about, you know, how do I make this more digital, how do I make this more internet-based, right?

2:39, that was the early things, that, you know, that, that came around, and then I would say the last, you know, 1 to 2 years somewhere in there, the, the light bulb has gone off.

2:49 We’re seeing more talk around digital solutions.

2:53 How do I you know, make the consumer experience stronger?

2:57 How do I build on top of these mobile devices that are in our hands?

3:01 How do I get things to consumers in a more instantaneous way.

3:04 And, really the, the, the, the, the talk track and, and, and what, what businesses are looking for today is to reduce costs, reduce that paper, reduce friction in that process and make the consumer experience more what they’re looking to, you know, to achieve on that, on that side.

3:25 And we do a lot of research in that area.

3:27, and consumers more than ever are comfortable today with a digital experience from receipt of payment to spending the money.

3:37 How is that, Tony, in your experience, how has that changed perhaps from years past?

3:41 You’ve mentioned kind of this digitization, your talk track around what folks are looking for, you guys are looking and doing your market research, and you’re finding that folks are comfortable with digital payments.

3:52 Where do you think they’re moving from?

3:54 That makes him so excited and comfortable to embrace really the digitization process.

3:59 Yeah, I think, I think just the, the saturation of of mobile devices in our hands, the, the, the evolution of, of kind of how that’s all come together.

4:09 We’re finally at a point now where if you go to really just any merchant, right, any merchant across the country, whether it’s a A gas station, a large, a large brand, you know, a mom and pops type store, you know, you, you, you see, you hear this interaction with, with the, you know, the cash register clerk, they’re saying, you know, just tap right here, just tap right here, tap right here, tap right here, and it’s like, You know, instead of swiping it, it almost feels odd anymore to do any of that, and that is, that has really sort of migrated into, into the devices that everybody has.

4:48 You see the, you know, the Apple Pay stuff, the Google Pay, Samsung Pay stuff is really Getting more comfortable, and, and, and people are getting more used to it, right?

5:00 So this concept of doing everything within the device, I mean, Venmo is a verb, right?

5:07 you know.

5:09 It’s one of those things where it’s like, you know, you’ve got different payment modalities that are now verbs and it’s like, it’s like I’m not paying you, I will do I will do some verb, right?

5:19 And I think, I think, I think we’ve reached a, you know, kind of an ape, a point where everybody’s just comfortable with it and it feels like I had, I had somebody years ago that I, I, I, I was working in car manufacturing for many years and, you know, we were talking about the fact that, you know, this was, you know, probably 10, you know, 1015 years ago, but I was talking to one of our R&D guys, and we just started chatting about, you know, will cards ever go away?

5:50 It was, it was during the EMV world, you know, time frame when we were switching things over and took the US forever, right?

5:57 And we, you know, what will we do, long term, any, any, I’ll never forget this, you know, the statement he said, he said it’s going to take a generational shift, right?

6:08 You’re gonna have to move through generations in order for, one group of, you know, you know, one generation to to drive the next change, right?

6:19 And I think we’re starting to see a digital first or digital company or.

6:23 Or whatever the, whatever the phrase is, right?

6:26 a tech, a group of people now that are, that are in their, you know, 20s, 30s, early 40s that are very comfortable with these solutions, and it’s just speeding up that process, right?

6:40 so, you know, that’s what is, driving the conversations from our, you know, from our customers.

6:47 They’re looking to You know, really improve the efficiency of their of their payments processes, move to a more digital experience, and everything just seems to be centered around, you know, how do I get a payment into their hands faster because the consumer’s comfortable with it and and I want to achieve that goal.

7:08 Well, that really resonates with me, Tony, and I do think that there was a point during COVID where there was this inflection, where cash abandonment started to happen as a trend far faster than it ever has in preceding years.

7:21 And I think that not only was cash abandonment part of it, but then people also started to recognize that the fastest growing, new account enrollments are actually happening on those payment modalities.

7:31 And you, as you said, these are nouns that are moving into verbs.

7:34 People are starting to bring them into their colloquial language, their jargon.

7:37 they’re very much passionate folks that are consuming these services, and I do think you’re absolutely right that where folks are looking to go is One, we want to create a better experience and digitization allows for a faster exchange of information.

7:51 And when you’re exchanging information faster, you can iterate.

7:54 You can iterate faster and you can provide a form of value.

7:56 And you can also kind of keep up with your consumer base and where they’re looking to move.

8:00 At the end of the day, and I think that this holds true, and it’s an old adage, but it’s a good one.

8:05 When you look at Facebook and you look at Instagram, They both posted pictures online.

8:10 But there was a point where Instagram was outpacing Facebook because it required less clicks.

8:14 And it’s so profound how Instagram started to capture more market share just because you clicked less in an effort to post a picture.

8:20 So this very much just following that, where it’s always about ease and convenience.

8:24 Do you find ease and convenience to be at the front of mind and everything that you’re doing kind of on that Finserf side, Tony, if we were to, to maybe kind of give it an archetype.

8:33 Yeah, that, that ease and convenience pieces is is big.

8:38 I, I think, I think consumers today are impatient.

8:42 there’s so many different choices and things that you can that you can, you know, that you can take advantage of in our world today.

8:48 There’s, there’s, you know, if, if one, if one thing doesn’t work efficiently, smoothly.

8:54, quickly, you know, you name it, it’s, you know, a consumer may move on to something else pretty easily, right?

9:04 we, I’ll give you an example, Just a couple of years actually, it’s been about a year and a half years now, 2 years.

9:11 OnBe was an early adopter of, of what we call send a wallet, which is really just a, it’s a, a mobile way to move a virtual card to Apple Pay or Samsung Pay or Google Pay, OK.

9:27 we’ve been doing that for years.

9:28 you, you know, consumers have been You know, taking their card, maybe taking a photo of it, maybe take, maybe, maybe typing the virtual card number in or, you know, what have you.

9:38 We had, we had a business, one of our largest customers come to us and say that that’s just, it’s kind of a pain to kind of just flip back and forth between two screens on your phone and, and we were, we were like, yeah, I mean, I guess so, you know, you can copy and paste it, you can do these things, but it’s like But it’s, but it was interesting to hear that, that, that even something as you know, as basic as that was, was kind of a pain, right?

10:02 So there wasn’t at the time a way to do that from a mobile device.

10:07 You could do it from an app, right, that was on the phone.

10:09 So if you had a downloaded app, and then you had Apple Pay on your phone, right, there was a connection point there, but not from the web, and that’s where most of our consumers end up hitting our services.

10:21 So Long story short, we integrated a service that allows for one touch provisioning from, from the, from the mobile web.

10:29 So I get a virtual card, I press this, this button, it’s no different than what you might see in a mobile app, but you press this button and using APIs behind the scenes.

10:40 You know, syncing and, and, and doing all the, the digital things we know and love today, we can provision a card directly to an Apple wallet or Google Wallet or Samsung Pay seamlessly from the web, and that made them happy.

10:54 They went and said, wow, that’s, that’s it, and now we’re selling that and saying that that’s how, that’s how easy it is to do it.

11:01 you know, it’s no different than when you look at a consumer that’s buying something.

11:05 I’m, I’m the same way.

11:06 If I can If I have to, if I have to get up, which makes me seem a little bit lazy, I guess, but maybe I am.

11:12 I don’t know.

11:13 But if I have to get up to get my wallet, there’s a good chance that I’m probably not gonna buy that thing, right?

11:20 I mean, it’s, it’s true, it’s, it’s true.

11:23 It’s just indicative of, of kind of how the, you know, the attention span of humans is getting shorter and shorter, so.

11:34 You know, you gotta make that impact right now, and it’s got to be easy.

11:38 You’re gonna get complaints or you’re gonna get, you know, less, less buyers or less users, right?

11:43 So, yeah, I think, those are, you know, it’s kind of a few examples of, of, of how that’s coming together and, and things that, that we’re doing it on be to try to you know, help businesses stay with the times, if you will.

11:58 So, so, Tony, we’ve talked a lot about the customer experience.

12:02 Let’s turn to the, to the, to the corporate side, your direct client side.

12:07 You referenced earlier that you’re looking to reduce, that they’re looking to reduce friction, they’re looking to take costs out of this payment process.

12:15 And NB speaks about, speaks about their aspiration to provide solutions that actually transform their payments program from a cost center to a profit center.

12:28 Many times that’s aspirational for, for a client.

12:31 Can you talk about how you help a client envision driving these payment programs, which is a process?

12:39 How do they think about turning it from a cost center to a profit center, and then what is the process for you to help them kind of co-create these innovative products and services and customer experiences?

12:51 Yeah, it’s a good question.

12:53 it’s not easy, you know, I think, I think you’re talking about a, you know, years and years and years of processes, you know, that are very, involved, you know, you know, involved with, you know, having a staff, having, you know, a very understood process that’s difficult to change, right?

13:14 It’s sometimes, easier to stay where you are and, and just keep doing what you’re doing, you know, whether it’s writing out checks or continuing to keep that, that, that motion.

13:25 Through, you know, the existing vendors, right?

13:28 I think recently, what we’ve seen more and more of though is businesses are, are really taking a look at their, at their, at their expenses, you know, and as digital tools become more available, online services, ways of getting things to consumers faster, I think, I think the, you know, you’re seeing more product and innovation mindsets, in these corporates and An example of it is, I never thought that I would hear so much about the achievement process.

14:02 And I think this is just, this is just an example, and it’s something that we talk about a lot of our business and it’s surprisingly a big attention getter, when we, when we talk about the services that we offer because we take care of, a lot of that work for them, when we make payments on their behalf.

14:22 we are, we’re getting a lot of inbound.

14:24 traffic from from companies that are struggling with maintaining adherence to the various state rules and the process of getting those letters out, getting those getting that reporting out, staying compliant, right?

14:39 and it, it’s, it’s something we hadn’t heard a lot of up until recently and it’s interesting that all of us Sudden businesses are focusing more and more on how do I, well, potentially, you know, reduce the number of people I have working on this one service and use technical solutions to disperse and manage that process.

15:02 and it’s a, it’s, it’s an interesting dynamic because they’re, they’re looking at You know, how do I, how do I reduce my costs, increase value to consumers, and I need partners to do that.

15:17 it’s very challenging to Take a business and make that turn.

15:23 we’ve even seen, you know, financial institutions, even, even fintech, we’re partnering with companies that you might think are our competitors and we’re saying, you know, we can help you with this, this digital communication or this process because we’ve been doing it.

15:40 And they are on record saying it’s going to take me years to get to this point.

15:45 And so that build partner buy thing is kind of becoming more and more of a topic where, you know, we’re we’re co-creating with, with businesses that quite frankly, you know, if you’d asked me the day prior, would have been considered a competitor of ours, right?

16:00 So.

16:00, it’s enabling us to, to have more conversations that, that, that technical and, you know, dialogue, and it’s allowing them to keep up with the consumers.

16:11 They have to partner.

16:13 They have to partner because I can’t get there fast enough, in today’s, in today’s world.

16:19 So, from what I’m hearing, you say there’s, when you’re talking to, to clients about the payment process, many clients are thinking about the throughput, and you’re talking about the fact that, OK, so we can deliver faster payments, more accurate payments.

16:34 We believe we can do it as cheaply, if not more cheaply.

16:38 However, really to think about it more holistically, we need to think about the exceptions and let’s call it the cleanup, whether it’s reclamations or it’s treatment.

16:46 And think about the effort that companies by themselves put into those processes, and you’re expanding this conversation from the transaction itself to the entire client experience.

16:59 And when I talk about client, I mean the business experience.

17:02 You’ve got to clean up whatever is left over that doesn’t pass muster the first time, you’ve got to clean that up, and it sounds as though you, you are expanding your services to take care of those exceptions.

17:13 Is that a, is that a true statement?

17:15 Yeah, absolutely.

17:16 I think, I think it’s one thing to say, how do I turn into a profit center, I mean, sometimes it is, sometimes, you know, sometimes there’s opportunities to, you know, to generate revenue from a new payments process, but a lot of times it’s about just reducing the costs and the friction associated with it.

17:32 we, we have these, you know, we have slides and slideware and, and, you know, factoids and all that, all that good stuff here, you know, based on research we’ve done.

17:43, that, that, that, that, that say that a check, a check, right?

17:48 Something as basic as a piece of paper going in the mail, can cost a business anywhere between $8.12 dollars all in, right?

17:58 And, and, and, and you might, that might seem like it’s way, you know, way off base, but, you know, when we have conversations with with our existing customers, with prospects, You know, anybody really, they that that have experience with it, they actually validate those numbers.

18:17 They, they really do say between, you know, the piece of paper going in the envelope, going in the mail, having somebody do the act of, of, of actually making that that happen, lost checks, replacing them, you know, answering questions about, about it, and then I call it the end of life experience, the, the achievement process.

18:43 What do you do with it when the check dies?

18:45 And, you know.

18:50 I try to make, I try to make some of this a little bit exciting because I’m like, yeah, I mean, when you were saying end of life experience, Tony, I was on the edge of my seat, seeing where it would go, but you pulled it together very well, very well.

19:00 Yeah, and, you know, and honestly, it’s like, well, every state’s got a different rule.

19:05 Every, every, there’s there’s still work to be done.

19:09 And when you really sort of put all that together between the humans that are making that go and, and, and all the things that that go around it.

19:18 8 to $12 isn’t that unreasonable, and we’ve had, I’ve had, I’ve talked to people that have that have quoted numbers higher than that.

19:26 So if I can if I can remove that process alone and and move you to a digital experience, you partner with me.

19:36 I’m gonna take care of the payment.

19:38 I’m gonna deal with, you know, what to do with that payment at the end of life, and, you know, that resonates with them because that’s reducing that cost, and, and, You know, I think it’s just in the last year, I think we’ve seen more and more companies sort of realize that they need to partner, and, and find a way to get to that point quicker.

20:02 What I find exciting about what you covered there, and there was a lot of excitement to be had in that conversation in that brief dialogue, is that I would agree, when you first mention the cost per check.

20:13 You know, internally, I was kind of like, oh my goodness, that seems high, but as you started to walk through, Tony, I would agree.

20:18 And then add to that, the more checks you send, the more likely you are to have a fraudster trying to imitate your check stock.

20:25 Then also, you’ll have to start to put on like a check positive pay.

20:27 Now there’s somebody dispositioning that somewhere in an effort to make sure that the checks that are being cashed truly were written and should be something that’s drawn on the account.

20:34 I mean, you’re absolutely right.

20:35 I could see that start to titrate even higher just as a function of time.

20:39 As you’re walking through all of the enhancements that we’ve seen, the migration, the evolution in the payment space, one thing that you sort of touch on was a treatment.

20:49 That’s the first time that’s ever been brought up on our podcast, but just for the benefit.

20:53 of the listening audience is sheman is essentially unclaimed or abandoned property.

20:57 To Tony’s point, when the check dies or there’s no one there that’s claiming that check, what do we do with that?

21:03 How do we get that, how do we get back to their custodian or back to that customer that’s that money?

21:09 And this space is really developing quite quickly, simply because oftentimes an opportunity for margin there is to depend on corporate structure strategies.

21:18 One thing I’d like position with you, Tony, or at least ask as a question.

21:23 I you talk through build partner by the speed for co-creation because you can’t possibly build it to hit market.

21:31 And I think you’re really touching on the macro market forces quite completely there.

21:36 What are the values that really drive the culture at OnBe so you can be so forward leaning and so innovative?

21:44 Well, I think, I think the, the, the mindset that we have is and I like, I think about it this way, and I think a lot of my My, my co-workers do, but, you know, what got us here won’t get us there.

21:59 You know, we’re a 25 plus year business, you know, been very successful in, you know, making payments happen for, for corporations for, you know, since the late 90s.

22:12 and I think the realization that for our business to grow, for our business to continue to meet Consumer demand, we have, and, and honestly our, our customers are, are the center point of that.

22:26 We have to diversify our business, we have to think about new ways to offer choice, offer different solutions to our consumers as they evolve, and we have really a few, we’ve had a few conversations where we think of ourselves kind of as a 25 year old startup, right?

22:47, you know, and we’re trying to really kind of think about, you know, how do we evolve the business, how do we, take advantage of technology, and not just take our time with it, but sort of make sure that, that, that, that what we’re putting out there for our customers is something that, you know, is actually needed.

23:08 We’re not reaching for the next The next big thing, right, you know, we, we’re not reaching for, you know, how do we make payments in, in Bitcoin or how do we, you know, leverage, you know, the latest, you know, the latest thing that comes out in the articles, right?

23:25 We’re sort of, you know, patient about it.

23:27 We listen to our customers, we do a lot of research there, and, just evolve the business that way.

23:34 But I think at the end of the day, our, our culture really is kind of centered around.

23:38 that what got us here won’t get us there.

23:41 and, and we’re really sort of, you know, thoughtful about that.

23:45 We just brought in a new, chief product officer that, you know, that, that was, announced in the media.

23:53 Nobody ever, nobody ever announces my hires, but they announce, they announce his, but, when I get hired, nobody puts me out in the, in the media, but, but, but Say did, which is great.

24:05, and, honestly, just since his since his coming into the, into the organization, you know, he’s really looking at everything and, you know, you know, looking at how do we, how do we innovate faster, because we have to.

24:21 Payments are moving like every 6 months, something new is coming out, some new integration or way of doing things is coming out and that’s what technology does for you.

24:32 Well Tony, what I captured there is really just how intentional you are as a business, as you’re assessing the marketplace before you make a move.

24:40 And I think that level of maturity only comes with a 25 year old fintech or a startup as you would capture.

24:45 so well done on on growing and being mature.

24:48 I love the value of what got us here won’t get us there.

24:51 I wrote that down.

24:52 That’s something that I really resonate with.

24:54 I’ll even internalize, cause I find that to be true.

24:57 Based on your conversations, Tony, and your observations, and you’ve been in the payment space a long time, you’re a thought leader.

25:03 I mean, you’re even at, I think, I believe at Springbok at one point in time is that started to take flight.

25:08 What do you think is the next big thing in payments that you can see coming in your crystal ball?

25:14 Gosh, I wish, I wish I had those answers because I I might be a lot wealthier than I am, but, you know, I think, honestly, it’s it’s interesting.

25:24 I, I, there’s, you know, you see these articles that come out in Forbes and talk about, you know, the next big thing, you know, we keep talking about these digital currencies or these, you know, the, the stable coins or the, you know, how do we exchange money in a more digital way?

25:41 How do we get rid of cash, how do we get rid of check.

25:43 I think, I think a lot of, a lot of what, you know, what we’re gonna see moving forward is probably a lot slower than any of those types of things, right?

25:55 I think, I think consumers have to have, you know, a reason to, you know, to make that, you know, that leap to the next thing, right?

26:05 and so the next big thing to me.

26:06 I think is gonna be, you know, more integrated with things that are coming from other technologies, right?

26:16 I really, you know, a couple of years ago I would have said, you know, we’re crazy to keep talking about AI and And, and that sort of a thing and now all of a sudden it’s like it’s changing my life, you know, I’m, I’m, it’s, it’s amazing how, how easy it is to get answers to things or make choices or, you know, things like that.

26:33 So I, I wonder if that, that those AI concepts will, will come into play to help guide the payment process, help make help consumers make choices more efficiently.

26:46 so I think we’ll see a little bit of that, as devices get more integrated there.

26:50, you know, and honestly personalize the experience, right?

26:55 And that’s what IB really is, is known for is that personalized, engaging experience.

27:01 So be interesting to see what AI does and and how that impacts payments.

27:05, you know, I think that, that, you know, the security of, of the payment is very, very top of mind for consumers, which as more and more choices, more and more solutions come to the table, you know, we’re going to need more help kind of figuring out what to do there, but, Look, I think it’s going to be slower than we think, but faster than we think.

27:27 I don’t know what the, I don’t know what the right answers are there, but I think it’s going to be largely dependent on how on how devices in our hands or or other technologies help give us ideas on how to, how to evolve getting money from point A to point B.

27:44 Brilliant insight, Tony.

27:46 I, I think that’s brilliant insight.

27:47 And what I’d also just like to maybe really highlight is I do find, to your point on velocity, it’s probably faster than we think, but also slower than we think.

27:55 It feels like a contradiction in terms, but it is true in terms of what that experience nets.

28:00 And I wonder if a point you made at the kind of the opening of our engagement was really around generational shifts.

28:06 And as one generation comes more online within a payment modality, you see higher velocity of adoption taking place.

28:11 So, I think that you’re absolutely spot on, because when we think it moves faster than we think, well, it might be because those generational shifts are starting to come in and really improve adoption.

28:20 I mean, we’re even seeing that loosely in the cryptocurrency space right now, just where all of a sudden the adoption, the market cap is rising and it’s, and it’s brilliant just to watch it move.

28:29 The couple questions just to maybe color you in more as a personality for our audience.

28:36 As we’ve kind of walked through on the the future of payments.

28:38 Let’s talk a little bit about Tony.

28:41 What was really a defining moment for you in your career?

28:44 When you realized that you wanted to be a thought leader perhaps in the fintech space, or did you just fall into it, Tony?

28:50 Kind of, was it intentional or how did you get here?

28:52, I fell into it.

28:54 I think if I look back, I, I was in, I was in telecommunications for years.

28:59 my first jobs were, were, you know, order entry, you know, data entry in, in, in a cubicle in telecommunications, you know, late 90s, early 2000s, managed call centers, did a lot of different things in, in the telecom world.

29:18 interesting industry, but pretty challenging, a lot of changes, a lot of A lot of, a lot of acquisitions, a lot of stuff going on there.

29:26 a friend of mine, worked in Worked at Springbok, the infamous Springbok back in the days, during, the Springbok, I always say, you know, back when FinTech was just starting to get really invested and we weren’t calling it Fintech then, it was, you know, it was, it was a new, new payments things back then and so.

29:49, had gotten an investment, went over there to, be a project manager, business analyst type, and, had no idea what I was doing, but the interesting part about that was that, you know, it’s a growing company, you were working directly with the CEO, you were working with all levels of management and at that point, I kinda, I got really interested in what payments and what that was going to do, and I got to.

30:18 You know, do a lot of different things.

30:20 I moved into car manufacturing from there, was working with, you know, the largest banks in the world, to produce their, you know, their collateral and their plastics and everything that’s in the, you know, the stuff that’s in our wallets every day.

30:32 So I got to see how that works.

30:35 got to work in a startup processing solution where we built the processor.

30:39 Honestly, what’s kept me engaged is the fact that, you know, the, you know, the industry feels like it’s, it’s recession proof if that makes sense.

30:46 You know, there’s always something.

30:48 That’s going to, that’s going to, you know, the payments world is what is, is something that’s always going to be there.

30:54 It’s always going to be evolving, and, and I think, An example of that.

31:01 I was in the car manufacturing world in 2013, 2014.

31:04 We were starting to evolve to EMB in the US, and I was really enamored by that process, that change.

31:14 I was an early adopter of the educational tools that were in our industry.

31:19 you know, I was participating in in getting my certifications around.

31:23, chip manufacturing and how the code worked behind that, and I started educating people.

31:30 I was going to conferences and teaching about EMV, you know, I was teaching about how the construct of the card comes together and from that point, I’m just, I just got more and more involved in how things, how things work and I think it’s just a, it’s an amazing industry because we just keep evolving and it keeps changing, right?

31:49 It doesn’t stay the same.

31:50 So, yeah, a lot of good friends, a lot of good progress over the years, and, here I am enjoying it, so I don’t see myself ever changing that.

32:00 I just went to a conference and I, I thought this was, I posted on LinkedIn, just went to a conference that was put on by the University of Utah.

32:08 And the University of Utah actually has a degree in financial technology or at least a a, a program in financial technology that that allows students at the University of Utah to get a certificate in financial technology.

32:25 Can you believe that?

32:26 I mean that’s amazing.

32:27 That’s how far the space has come.

32:29 I mean, to your point, we never called it FinTech.

32:30 It was maybe prepaid stored value.

32:32 Alright, your point, it was the wild west.

32:34 We’re just, we’re sending money places.

32:36 Yeah, you know it’s, yeah, yeah, yeah, it matured quite a bit now to being a collegiate course of study, blows minds.

32:42 It absolutely does.

32:44 Yeah, so.

32:46 Tony, I think the top, the top of mind question for everybody that’s probably listened through the introduction, and knowing that you’re a football coach and knowing that you work in fintech our payments.

32:57 Which roles more difficult?

33:02 That is a, that is a good question.

33:05 I, so I, I, I helped coach, a football with with my best friend growing up, and, we’ve sort of his, my daughter is, is in college.

33:19 She, I have, I have just the one daughter.

33:21 he’s got, now an 11 year old, 10 year old, that’s been playing football and he coaches the team, and I, he, he asked me to join a few years ago, and I did.

33:32 I was reluctant because I wasn’t sure what I was doing.

33:34 I played football, I, I liked the game.

33:36 I enjoy watching it, but I wasn’t sure how I would do with, you know, 89 year olds and, and, and how to keep them in line and,, honestly, it’s, it’s taught me a lot, about how to communicate, and, and how to teach and how to be a little bit more patient.

33:55 you wouldn’t think that, that, that it would, but I’ve, I’ve sort of, that’s a, that’s, that’s a difficult task.

34:03 but if you, you know, you build your patience, you build your communication skills, you know, it can have a lot of parallels to things you do at work, right?

34:11 you know, just explaining something, right?

34:14 You know, to somebody who has no idea what you’re talking about, right?

34:19 how do you explain making a block or or going this direction or what have you, when they have no idea what you’re talking about, you got to rework how that, how that flows, and I think that that parallels a lot into the sales process.

34:33 How do I, how do I increase my patience, how do I think tactfully about how I’m going to communicate something.

34:39, you know, it’s, it’s easier said than done.

34:42 I think we take it for granted.

34:44 So that’s what I’ve taken from, from that side of things, but, yeah, both things are hard, but, you know, if you keep evolving and adapting, I think you can make it easier.

34:54 So, Tony, we’ve, we talked a lot today about working and clearly you’re passionate, you’re, you’re enamored with the payment space, you’re passionate about it, it shines through.

35:03 You’ve talked a little bit about coaching.

35:04 Is there, is there What other passions do you have?

35:08 What drives you outside of, outside of working hours?

35:12 Well, I I definitely don’t have a lot of good stories, outside of working hours.

35:18 I’m a pretty boring guy at the end of the day, but, you know, I, I do enjoy, you know, going to the gym.

35:27 I, I’ve got a lot of good friends there that, you know, I interact with, I learn from, it gets me out of the house.

35:33 I work from home, travel a little bit here and there, but, You know, getting out and, and, and just being in the community.

35:41 I, I don’t leave a two-mile radius very often around my house, but, so I enjoy that.

35:48 I like being outdoors.

35:50 I live in the Denver area.

35:51 It’s a very outdoorsy, state, and so I, you know, try to take advantage of a lot of that stuff.

35:58 you know, my daughter is, is in college now.

36:00 She goes to University of Wyoming right behind me.

36:04 she plays rugby.

36:05, is a wonderful student and, enjoy, you know, supporting her wherever I can there.

36:12 and, I love to keep an immaculate lawn.

36:15 That’s, very important to me.

36:16 So, you know, I’m that guy.

36:18 I’m that guy that, I’m that guy that everybody kind of, you know, they drive by and they say, how do you do that?

36:25 And I go, just water and fertilizer, a little bit of.

36:31 So you’re that guy.

36:33 OK.

36:33 I’m that guy, yeah.

36:34 So, a lot of people look bad, but, I’m that guy that, you’re gonna see outside kind of just maybe looking at blades of grass every once in a while and kind of wondering how I can make this greener.

36:46 But, but yeah, I think, you know, I’m definitely not gonna be out there, jumping from planes or, doing things like that, but, yeah, so pretty basic.

36:59 Fantastic.

36:59 I’ll have to put away my spray can of John Deere Green and come talk to you about my lawn.

37:05 Tony, thanks, thank you so much.

37:08 We’ve really enjoyed our conversation today, and we appreciate your time, joining us today in social currency.

37:14 Yeah, thanks so much for having me.

37:15 I really appreciate this and thanks for everything you guys do for on me.

37:19 Appreciate it.

37:21 We appreciate everything Andy does for Sunrise.

37:23 Thank you.

37:24 Pleasure.

37:28 And that engaging dialogue was powered by Sunrise Banks, member FDIC, equal housing lender.

37:34 Thanks for listening to the Social Currency podcast by Sunrise Banks.

37:38 If you’ve enjoyed this episode and you’d like to help support the podcast, click like and subscribe anywhere you get your podcast content.

37:44 We’ll see you soon.