James Garvey
Founder and CEO of Self Financial
James Garvey founded Self Financial to help people establish and rebuild credit—scaling it from idea to a nationally recognized platform serving millions. Along the way, he’s worked closely with regulators, investors, and operators to navigate balance-sheet risk, consumer protection, and growth under constraint. Today, James serves as a board member and advisor to fintech and financial-services companies.
0:02 Social Currency powered by Sunrise Banks is a podcast that introduces you to some of the most innovative change makers in finance, technology, and all things social impact.
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0:33 I’m Tyler Seydel.
0:35 And I’m Eric Schurr, and today we’re going to talk about the credit building journey, the struggles many face when trying to build credit.
0:42 And how to utilize tools that will help.
0:44 And our guest today is the one and only Mr.
0:47 James Garvey.
0:47 He is the founder and CEO of Self Financial.
0:50 He founded Self in 2015 after experiencing firsthand the challenges of establishing a credit score or even a credit profile.
0:59 And for more than a decade, Self has been dedicated to helping people establish credit in a financial foundation.
1:06 And to that end, they’ve helped over 4 million individuals.
1:10 With limited or no credit history, start to establish their own, which, as we know, opens up a world, the big wide world of the finance system that the US can offer.
1:20 And with that, James, what was the moment
1:26 When you were identifying this market opportunity that you launched self, we know that you experienced a problem firsthand with your own credit, or at least some family close to you perhaps struggled with it.
1:38 What did you discover about the system that ultimately led to you creating stuff?
1:43 Yeah, so, it it’s really kind of a funny story.
1:48 I had this credit card that I thought was an autopay.
1:51 And 2 months in my billing cycle, I realized that it wasn’t on autopay, and I had a credit card that went unpaid for 2 months.
2:00 So, my credit score took this massive dive, and I was trying to understand, well, how do people actually build credit and, you know, coming from a background where, you know, I’m a software engineer by trade, you know, look at this problem and, and essentially somebody has to give you credit, and then you have to repay it, and it’s that simple.
2:22 But if, if you have no score or if you have a low score, Just the act of getting a, a loan from a, from a bank, that’s, you know, fairly priced and, and easy to get.
2:35 I mean, back in 2015, it was a bit harder than it is today, but, essentially, It was a different world where the options were fairly limited.
2:44 You had traditional credit card companies that had a secured credit card where, you know, you put up a deposit and they give you a credit card backed by the deposit, but if you don’t have that money, if you don’t have $500 or $1000 to put up for a deposit, like what do you do?
3:00 And, and that’s where I saw some credit unions doing some interesting things, but they were really using a product that was very similar to the secured card, you know, you still had to come up with a $1000 deposit to get a credit builder loan where basically they’d make you a loan, like an installment loan backed on the deposit you put.
3:25 And so, in both cases it requires this deposit.
3:28 And so, if, you know, if you want to get started building credit, and you know, you don’t have that much money, like what, what do you do?
3:35 So, the solution was, hey, we would partner with the bank, we would be able to lend you some money, and the, the caveat is that money goes into a CD.
3:45 So, it’s like a forced savings mechanism and the idea of being able to have this mechanism where it’s like a, it’s like a savings plan with consequences, you know, the consequence of paying on time.
3:58 Is, you know, your credit score is likely to go up, not guarantee, but it’s likely to happen.
4:05 But also, you know, at the end of this period, you’ve, you’ve managed to build credit history and you’ve got this money saved up, so it’s, it’s a really nice solution, you know, to a, a problem that everybody has at some point, you know, if you’re just getting started or if you’re getting restarted.
4:23 You know, building credit is one of those things that you have to do if you want to live in America.
4:29 Yeah, I think when you say live in America, you’re absolutely right, because your quality of life is going to be impacted so drastically if you don’t have access to the American financial system, the US financial system, largest in the world.
4:40 When was the inflection point, because I’m sure there had to have been one, where you realized that this wasn’t just unique to you, this wasn’t just your problem, but it was affecting millions of other people.
4:51 Well, upon doing research, this is where I, I really got excited because, you know, when I, when I, when I started Self back in 2015, the Financial Health Network, which had a previous name before they were called Financial Health Network, they published this fantastic amount of research that described the, the reality that there’s Somewhere between 60 to 100 million Americans that either do not have a credit score or have a low credit score.
5:23 So the, the size of the problem is so large, and, and yet it’s one of those things that’s just, it’s so silly, you know, it’s like, you know, I, how do you get started building credit.
5:36 If you don’t have access to credit, because in order to get credit, you need credit, and so it’s this weird catch-22.
5:43 So, you know, I, I saw this problem that the Financial Health Network was talking about just 60 to 100 million people that don’t have a credit score or a low credit score, and that was the point where I thought, wow, not only is this a problem that I have, but it’s a problem that that clearly millions of people.
5:59 I think you’re right when you start to identify that catch-22.
6:02 How does somebody prove that they’re credit worthy when the system requires them to already have credit?
6:08 So, how would you answer that question?
6:10 Was your solution then self, or can you walk us through, can you walk the audience through how you tackled that?
6:16 Yeah, so it’s really simple.
6:18 If, if you have a loved one, whether it’s a parent or a spouse or a friend who’s got excellent credit history.
6:31 What they can do is they can add you onto their credit card as a co-signer, and like that’s like the simplest thing you can do.
6:38 It’s usually free and it’s, it’s a great tactic, especially for parents.
6:45 The, the problem though, just to be clear, is that if your co-signer doesn’t pay the bill, if, if they forget, if they make a mistake.
6:55 You know, you’re in trouble too.
6:56 So, that’s the only challenge of that.
7:00 So it’s, it’s a, it’s a good thing to do if you’re a parent, but I, I would be very careful about doing that with somebody who’s not immediate family.
7:11 And, and so, that’s like the, the trusted solution that always works and, and, and it’s usually free.
7:17 Now.
7:17 The next thing you could do is you can go out and apply for a credit card, and there’s plenty of credit cards that don’t have annual fees that are very low cost, and if you get approved, great, you know, you’re off, you’re off to building credit now you got, you got the card, just use it and pay it back.
7:34 Paying back part’s really important.
7:36 And you know, that’s I’d say they say the second very easy solution that you can do.
7:42 If you get rejected.
7:44 Now that’s where, you know, self or another solution can come in.
7:49 And so it comes down to, you know, do you have $500?
7:54 Do you have a good chunk of money that you can give to a company to hold a security deposit for a long time to give you a credit card?
8:04 If you do, great, you know, Capital One has a solution.
8:07 Self has a solution.
8:08 There’s a few options out there.
8:10 If you don’t want to do that, then, then you could use the credit builder account that itself has, where, you know, you basically choose what you want we’ve got a few different price points, but, but essentially, you know, you choose what you want and it’s a forced savings mechanism where you’re building credit history, you’re saving money, and the beautiful thing also is like once you’ve built up $100 of liquidity.
8:39 you can get our credit card.
8:41 So it’s a, it’s a nice way to roll the credit builder loan product into a card as well.
8:48 So James, hearing, hearing this and, and, and listening to the products that the self.
8:55 You know, how, have you thought about evolving the products that would self, you’re clearly thought deeply about this, about this problem, and I know that you’ve, you’ve, you’ve taken other steps as well to to address this.
9:06 You’ve been involved with the board of Rhino and Jetty, a security deposit platform for renters.
9:12 How does, how does this involvement combined with your work at self, kind of square your vision for financial products and services for people who are trying to either establish or re-establish credit?
9:23 Yeah, so I, I, I love consumer products, you know, I, I love the idea of being able to, to build something that can help lots of people and do it in a responsible way, I think it’s, it’s a truly remarkable opportunity that a lot of companies miss.
9:47 In other words, you know, you focus on the super prime customer or you focus on the very, very, very thinly capitalized customer, but everybody in the middle.
9:57 That’s, that’s like a very big market and that’s where, you know, self plays, that’s, that’s where Rhino and Jenny play as well, but, you know, essentially, I, I just love the idea of being able to do something that could help people, but at the same time, you know, we can build a successful business and we can create real long term impact, You know, one of the things that I, I love to brag about is, you know, if you go in the App Store, we’ve got 4.9 stars and, you know, more than 300,000 reviews.
10:31 you know, we’ve helped millions of people establish credit and build credit and get access to lots of things in life, including being able to buy their first home and, and be able to buy a car and And, you know, it’s just, you know, we, while we play a very small role in that, it’s, it’s ultimately a great feeling to do something that creates a positive impact to the world.
10:53 How, how do those stories that you just mentioned briefly, how do those stories integrate into the culture of the company?
11:00 Yeah, it It, it’s interesting because, you know, I, I started self to help solve my problem and I think when you come from that perspective of, hey, we’re, we’re here to do something that can help people, but we’re here to make money, but we can do it responsibly.
11:20 you know, the, the culture of self is, is really about those kind of core values, you know, doing the right thing is one of the core values we have, you know, transparency in, in how we operate, you know, we, we try to be customer centric.
11:36 We try to think about the customer because we are customers, you know, all of our employees are using our products as well.
11:43 so it’s, it’s a, I want to be proud of what I do, and, and I, and I think that the culture of self, you know, fully embodies that that concept.
11:56 We do what we say we’re going to do.
11:58 We deliver a good product.
11:59 We help our customer, and it’s a responsibly priced and very fair and easy to use, and our, our values reflect that, and our, our customers see that as well.
12:12 Very good.
12:15 So, James, you, you founded the company in 2015.
12:21 you’ve grown this thing over time, and then in 2023, you stepped out of the role of CEO and stepped onto the board exclusively.
12:30 you’ve, like, like, like Steve Jobs, you, you came back, you decided to come back, into the, into the CEO role.
12:38 What was it in the market or within the company that kind of drove, drove that decision?
12:43 What, what were you observing?
12:45 That that that drove you back into the CEO role.
12:49 Yeah, so the, you know, the board asked me to come back, and, and, you know, ultimately, you know, I, I founded Self, I’ve got a love for the company.
13:03 I’ve, I, I absolutely love what we’re doing, and you know, the, the, the bottom line is there’s a lot more work to do.
13:12 And, and so, you know, the fact that there was an opportunity for me to come back and, and the board wanted me to come back, you know, I’m more than happy to help.
13:20 And, and so the, you know, the, the funny thing is when I stepped away in 2023.
13:26 You know, AI was not a thing, at least not, not to the extent it is now.
13:33 I, I feel like the world has changed so much in such a short period of time, and it’s, it’s been kind of fun because I’ve felt like I’ve Been able to like refound the company.
13:44 And, you know, yeah, we’re, we’re in a really special period of time right now.
13:49 There’s so much change and so much happening.
13:52 And It’s such a great opportunity to be, to be, to be here itself.
13:58 OK.
13:59 So, a bit of self-reflection.
14:02 What’s the difference between James Garvey, Self-CEO in 2015, and James Garvey, Self-CEO in 2026?
14:15 yeah, I’ve got, more wrinkles, less hair, but no, in, in seriousness, I, I I still have, I’m still tenacious.
14:30 I, I still, I still want to grow.
14:32 I still got so many, so much big dreams for what self can do.
14:36 I’d say that.
14:39 I’ve had the pleasure of working with so many amazing people over the last 11 years, and I, I’ve learned so much and I feel like, I feel like if anything, like I’m a, I’m a CEO today and 11 years ago I was playing a CEO, so, yeah, I’ve, I’ve grown a lot.
14:58 What was harder than investors, regulators, advisors, maybe even your issuing or sponsorship banks.
15:06 What is harder than what folks believed it to be, when it comes to starting a business or entering this space, or as it applies to your journey?
15:15 Like what was tougher than what folks maybe believed it to be?
15:20 You know, it, I, I’d say the 1st 100 customers were really hard, you know, the, the first.
15:30 Bank partner is really hard.
15:33 you know, the, the first investor that writes the first check is really hard.
15:38 Like those, those are all things that, you know, is, once you get one person on board, it’s a lot easier to convince the second, and, you know, the 1st 100 people to convinced to use a product they’ve never heard of, to be able to build credit, you know, hats off to those customers because It’s, it, it’s scary trying something new and doing something different and, and, you know, when you’re doing something that’s a bit unique, You know, it sure is easy for people to tell you no.
16:11 And so, you know, being able to, to push past that and find a way to get to a yes somehow, you know, that’s, that’s always the hardest part, going from 0 to 1.
16:22 And, and, and yeah, I, I think of, of all of the challenges that I’ve had, you know, over the years, I, I think that you know, at the end of the day, fundraising is always challenging.
16:35 Fundraising is always hard.
16:37 Finding your first bank partner is hard, but, but you know, finding the first million customers to believe in you is, is exceptionally hard.
16:47 yeah, I’ll leave it with that.
16:49 Yeah, I think that’s, that’s some phenomenal insight.
16:52 it, it absolutely is.
16:53 And when you start to position that, you know, we’re doing something new, and that’s true.
16:58 In 2015, you created an industry, and we can call it that today.
17:03 Back then, it was just an idea of how to serve this maybe total addressable market area.
17:08 Some of these people that might be similarly situated to you.
17:10 Now, fast forward, you have other people that are trying to imitate, mimic their second market movers, saying it using maybe more professional language, and you’ve really created an industry.
17:19 I think one question that lives at the back of my mind, because I feel like when you’re in those early years, it feels a little bit more shoe stringed, and by that I mean it doesn’t feel as robust.
17:29 It feels like bumps on the road are far larger than what they would be today with those same bumps.
17:34 Looking back, what nearly killed self in those first few years?
17:40 You know, there’s, there’s a short answer and there’s a longer answer, and, and so I’ll, I’ll say that.
17:47 The first thing is when you’re running a startup, you know, cash is, is the most important thing in your business, and, you know, it can be super hard when you’re just getting started because You know, running a business is hard.
18:07 Everything is expensive, people are expensive, office space is expensive, it’s just, it’s incredibly hard when you’re very, very small.
18:17 And it’s all about how much cash do we have?
18:21 Do we have enough cash to get to the next pay period?
18:24 Do we have enough cash to get to the next financing round?
18:28 And then once you have the next financing round, it’s like, OK, do we have enough cash to get to the next financing round?
18:32 And, and so, you know, with self, I’ve raised 6 rounds of venture capital and, you know, going from Series C to Series E.
18:40 And You know, cash is, is the one thing that, you know, you have to control more than any other part of your business as an entrepreneur, as an operator.
18:53 So, I, I’d say that, You know, early on, I, I didn’t have the financial acumen, as I do today.
19:04 I’ve always been very, I’d say I’ve always been very frugal and, and very careful managing money, but just in terms of Strategic finance, you know, raising the right amount of capital and having the right financial planning and having the, the resources and the people to, to help you because it’s extremely complicated and, you know, I, I’d say today with, with, with Claude and Chat GPT, man, it is so much easier to do strong financial planning.
19:34 That’s pretty accurate, you know, without having a CFO.
19:39 So, yeah, The advice I always give to entrepreneurs is make sure you have enough cash, you know, cash is cash is the only, the only thing that’s important when you’re when you’re in running a business.
19:53 Well, you know, they say cash is king or cash is queen, but you gave us a lot of reasons to really drive that point home.
19:59 You know, it’s an axiom or analogy for a reason, but when you start to color in some of that detail, it really starts to personalize it, certainly to me.
20:06 I guess one of the questions that I’d like to ask, because we do have an industry thought leader here saying it no differently, and it’s a little bit more maybe contrarian leaning, which is always good, creates some friction.
20:17 What does the industry spend too much time talking about and not enough time solving?
20:23 Yeah, that’s a great question.
20:24 I, I will say that.
20:29 In this administration, there’s been a tremendous amount of momentum.
20:37 And In, in at least, maybe overcorrecting some of the things that have happened in the past now.
20:47 At the end of the day, We still have challenges and the, the industry is still fairly new.
20:56 The fintech industry is fairly new, you know, financial services has been around for a long time, obviously banks have been around for hundreds of years, but, but I, I’d say, you know, some of the fintech challenges.
21:08 Have, have been interesting because just the, the regulatory window right now seems to be opening up, you know, we now see new charters happening, we see fintech buying banks, you know, there, there’s so much change happening right now.
21:24 So, so yeah, so I, so I’d say that if anything, it, it seems like there’s a lot of hope and momentum.
21:33 Happening today in, in this period of time or who knows what’s going to happen in the future, but if you were to start a bank, like this is the time to do it, you know, that, that was not open.
21:44 Two years ago, it is open today and, and so, I, I think what we’ll probably end up seeing is we’re seeing a lot, a lot more fintechs buying banks or starting banks, and I think it has just started.
21:59 So, so yeah, so that’s my, my, my counterpoint.
22:02 I think, I think there actually is a lot of stuff happening today.
22:06 I, I liked how you answered it.
22:07 There’s an organic natural follow-up question here, and you don’t need to kiss and tell on this.
22:13 But have you guys thought about purchasing a financial institution, that vertical integration play?
22:18 I, I think that If you are extremely well capitalized and you’re extremely profitable, it, it’s something for every fintech company to think about, and, you know, I, I’d say, you know, Self is, you know, we’re, we’re well capitalized, we are slightly profitable now, and, but, but yeah, that’s not something in our, in our cards that we’re thinking about right now.
22:46 So James, we spend a lot of time talking about Self, talking about credit building.
22:52 I know you have a life outside of work.
22:54 We’d love to hear what, what drives you?
22:56 What, what are your passions and your interests outside of work that regenerate and revitalize you for the time you spend thinking about this.
23:05 Well, I have a 2 1/2-year-old son, and my, my wife and I are expecting a, a second, so we’ll, I’ll have 2 kids.
23:14 my, my second, my daughter will be born in November, so I’m, I’m looking, looking forward to that, We have, I’d say my wife and I have this hobby, we absolutely love like adventure travel.
23:29 So, you know, a year and a half ago we were swimming with orcas.
23:34 last week we were in Africa on a safari.
23:38 we, we try to go to Africa as much as we can.
23:40 We’ve, we’ve been, been, maybe about 10 times.
23:44 So, yeah, we’re, we’re big fans of the outdoors and, and being outside, and I, I think it’s one of the best things you can do.
23:51 Man, living life large and solving problems for millions of people.
23:56 What a, what a what a life.
23:58 James, I wanna thank you for taking the time to talk to us today.
24:01 We really appreciated you.
24:03 thanks again.
24:04 Yeah, thank you for the opportunity.
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24:15 Thanks for listening to the Social Currency podcast by Sunrise Banks.
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